When you visit the PokerEDGE Compatible Poker Rooms page at my PokerEDGE software website, you will notice that there are two lists. The first deals with those three sites where PokerEDGE is not permitted. The second lists more than 200 of the 600+ on-line poker rooms where PokerEDGE is permitted.
If you use PokerEDGE at a site where it is not permitted, you do so at your own risk. I would suggest contacting PokerEDGE Administration/Support directly by email if you have any questions. And, always send an inquiry to your poker room first before using any software while playing.
So, is PokerEDGE legal? Of course it is legal. But, the fact that a few poker rooms prohibit PokerEDGE sparked the following discussion found in the PokerEDGE Community Forum.
Click here to try PokerEDGE, it is available with a 5-day free trial.
________________________________________________________________________
I bought Poker Edge yesterday and started to play at Full Tilt. Just playing NL Hold 'em on a low stakes tabel so I could get to know the program.
Today I wanted to learn more about the program and what people were thinking about it, because I hadn't quite figured out for myself if it was fair to use an application to enhance my poker playing performance.
Today I read on this forum that many poker sites disapprove of Poker Edge and some (2) even check your hard disk for it.
I'm not trying to be a goody two-shoes, but I really think that keeping a poker game fair is damn important and the reason I purchased PE was that I felt that others who were using any other application had an advantage over me. I want to play poker against people, starting on an equal level of information.
I know there are some threads on this forum about how FT and others can´t see if you´re using PE, but I still don´t understand why applications such as Poker Office and Poker Tracker are okay, and PE isn´t.
Is it only because of the fact that PO and PT make you gather your own data?
Somehow I'm not too comfortable with using PE anymore, because I feel like I'm biting the hand that feeds me. FT let's me play poker on their site, and I use software that they don't approve of. I know they're no charity organisation, but still.
I'm not judging people who use PE, but I think that personally I would have chosen a different program, if I had known many sites forbid it. Just to be sure that whatever succes I achieve by playing doesn't backfire on me (or is taken away) for using non-approved software.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Today I read on this forum that many poker sites disapprove of Poker Edge
Personally, I don't consider 3 out of over 600 to qualify as "many".
but I really think that keeping a poker game fair is damn important
All of our data is comprised of publicly available information which can be gathered by anyone who opens a poker table and observes the action. The rule prohibiting PE on the aforementioned sites is not an accepted rule of the sport in general, nor by other poker-sites... nor by professional poker players such as PokerStar's own spokesman Daniel Negreanu (he wrote an article pertaining to how he uses the Internet to gather information on players he hasn't seen before choosing a table).
My opinion is that anything that is built around publicly available information is not cheating. Anyone can open a poker table and observe the actions – that is the essence of a hand history. To me, cheating is collusion (working together to corner an opponent), sharing hole card information, and illegally obtaining hole card information.
I still don´t understand why applications such as Poker Office and Poker Tracker are okay, and PE isn´t.
Sometimes poker-sites only ban certain software for financial ties.... not ethical dilemmas... they purport "cheating".
I feel like I'm biting the hand that feeds me
Feel free to use PE on any of the other 600+ sites that have no problem with the use of our software... it's up to you.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
I think that there was this false assumption that PT users would only collect stat data from games that they play in. But it's been years since that was maybe true. Every PT user I know of data-mines like crazy so that they'll have enough data on most/all of the players in their stake level. Same with PO.
I actually think the PT and PO users cause more harm to poker-sites than PE does... just for that reason. All the PT and PO users are datamining like crazy all the time. Keeping 16 FullTilt tables open overnight every night while they sleep... stuff like that. That means that a huge percentage of the bandwidth that Fulltilt and other large poker-sites have to have available... is only necessary because of all the data-miners. And they have to have it available to avoid slowdowns for the people that actually are playing. I'm surprised that poker-sites haven't started severely limiting the number of tables a person can have open that they aren't playing in. But that's probably coming.
And a couple of the poker-sites are already cracking down on PT use now.
____________________________________________________________________________________
I understand your ethical dilemma. But, is it having the information that troubles you? And, the advantage that creates? Or, is it that some sites have in their judgment and for their reasons, deemed the information an unfair advantage?
Remember that poker is a game of information. The player who does not utilize every shred of available and observable information will be a long term loser. No exceptions.
In the past, when there were only brick and mortar games, we could gather information by observing a table before we were seated. Share information with other observers. And, collect even more data while we played. We could keep written notes the entire time. Then, before we played again, we could catagorize and easily review everything we knew about every one of our opponents.
Eventually, we could predict their every move. Then came books written by players. And, magazines. And, TV. Soon, we knew almost everything about everyone. This universe of information helped us to understand every type of player.
During this time, also came the Internet, and new ways to accumulate, store, and reference player data.
PE is just another step in the evolution of information. Perhaps that scares some folks. Perhaps some claim it to be unfair.
But, I'll bet that same person would have claimed me to be unfair when he saw me taking notes on his play in a live game. For me, there is no difference. So, any such claims by a person or a site are to me nothing more than a shallow attempt to dumb down the game.
Restricting any form of information has never in history served any good purpose. So, I make my personal decisions about the use of PE accordingly...and, guilt free.
___________________________________________________________________________________
First of all, thank you for responding to my thread. I really appreciate it. I know I'm being a bit sceptic and maybe antagonistic, so I think it's cool that you respond the informative way you do.
Second, is there a list with poker rooms, that have guaranteed no problem with PE?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Every poker-site has a End User License Agreement, that they make available to the public (often referred to as their EULAs). These EULAs spell out what is acceptable behavior and what is not acceptable behavior... on their poker-site.
They pretty much all will not put up with collusion, although they are limited in their abilities to detect it. Beyond that a few have lists of other types of schemes and software that they won't put up with. Sometimes data-miners are included, sometimes ICM calculators are included. A couple include PE in their lists of prohibited softwares, and a couple include pokertracker in their lists.
If you want to know what EVERY individual poker-site says they will allow and not allow... you are probably going to have to do your own research. I doubt anyone else here is willing to go through every EULA on every poker-site to compile your request for you. Especially since we don't view using PE (or other programs) as against the rules... even if 2-3 poker-sites out of the hundreds that are out there do.
I'm sitting in front of a computer while I play... OF COURSE I'm going to use it to the best of my abilities. AND SO ARE MANY OF MY/YOUR OPPONENTS.
But if you aren't sure about using extra softwares... then don't use em...
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Copyright 2009 R. Steve McCollum
